Nice post. A few comments:

“BUT - whining and crying, complaining and blaming and divining the “reason” is stupid, especially when you admit your site was spammy.”

All of my posts have been lucid, factual and non flaming. I am simply having a discussion.

Just a small note but you have some details wrong. I don’t have any data showing Boser came to my site. Ryan Ward does. My analytics was down at the time.

“So, reading through all these posts and forum threads, you would think that Greg is evil, that he may have had a back-door way of hitting a site or even secretly “works for Google”, that he was unethical. No, he did his job!”

I don’t ever remember saying that Boser was unethical.

“The real estate sites that are now under a penalty are NOT the result of you ratting anyone out,”

Do you really believe that? I never denied having state pages and reciprocal links. Just like thousands of other real estate websites. Some of them have cleaned up their act but most of them have not. And, they are unpenalized. What is the difference? Boser did not file spam reports on those websites.

“I can say to Greg - good job - you served YOUR client well. (though is sucks for REW)”

So Greg was required to turn in other websites to get his job done at Advanced Access? I don’t think anyone can really answer that question other than Google.

“Greg Boser got a black eye too - Headlines in forums and blog posts with his name in it accusing HIM of “having something to do with” the sites getting penalized is not fair or intellectually honest.”

Not fair? How is that not fair or intellectually honest? It was a simple question of whether he was involved in the penalizing of several sites. That simple. He all but admitted to in his statements on REW, “I have never denied the fact that during my time as a consultant for AA that I gave both Yahoo and Google examples of other companies engaging in the same kind of behavior that got AA penalized.”

“SO WHAT if Greg was on your site. Blaming him does nothing but show people that YOU HONESTLY believed your site wasn’t spammy”

How do you come up with that conclusion? I have already admitted to having state pages and reciprocal linking. Which most were built by the REW link team. I just did not need Greg firing a flare in the direction of the Google spam team.

“I’m not fighting with you”

I am not fighting with you.

“the sites DID (in my opinion) employ spammy techniques.”

I agree. The same method as thousands of other real estate sites.

“With Greg pointing it out to Google in any way does not make him “responsible” for the penalties.”

Was he the catalyst that started the process by submitting spam reports?

“that’s what this post is about and why your argument is lost.”

Pretty bold of you to come to that conclusion so fast isn’t it?

I appreciate the fact that you feel bad for me.

I really did not become complacent I was just selling houses. That is how I feed my family, not staying on top of the SEO world. After Greg submitting a spam report thus being the catalyst for my Google penalty I became aware of what was going on around here.

I was not caught up in all of this mess thankfully, though I could have been, I did not have my website up yet when all of this was going down. As recently as early March I was at Keller Williams Realtors Tech conference where Reciprocal linking was being talked about in very positive ways by many of the guests, and instructor. I could easily have put up 60 or 70 reciprocal links just from going to that conference.

Before the thread started about Advanced Access and their spammy linking problems I had never heard of Matt Cutts and had no idea that reciprocal linking was bad, the only understanding I had was that it was less effective than one way links.

I feel strongly that if Google wanted to put a shot across the the Realtors to let them know that this is bad, they should have first posted it on Matt Cutts Blog, had him publicly say, Such is coming, Sent a e-mail out to each of the major website developers that Google knows about, and when selecting websites by hand, send each of the owners a e-mail explaining what they are doing and why. Don’t just impose a penalty and leave the person sitting their wondering what happened, as so many were left wondering.

When penalties are handed out in any other industry notice, reason, and timeframes are always given. It is the professional thing to do.

Sorry if I came off negative, just my opinion.

James Boyer
Keller Williams Realtors
Summit, NJ 07901

Thanks for the update, Checked it out there, but as of this post I am not going to comment on that post anymore, what is done is done.

I think what Greg Boser has done is said he is going to hurt anyone who gets in the way of his clients, so everyone should be aware of that, and when dealing with him, they should act accordingly.

Not trying to be mean, and since I have not been impacted by what he has done or not done, I guess I consider myself a non biased witness. The old saying of you get what you give will likely come back to haunt Greg Boser!

James - what you are saying is based off of what one person posted at the forum, not from what you know. You’ve seen what happens when you’re on the radar… just be careful

Bob- you are SOOOOO right. Rank is not an entitlement. FINALLY someone gets it. I owe you a Coors.

k

Their idea of “the squeaky wheel getting the grease” may be a bad idea. Wonder if, with Google “trying to set an example”, they decide to teach everyone that nagging, complaining and posting accusations and conspiracy theories everywhere they can is not the way to handle this (though I do that for some projects, it’s for a far different outcome). They think they have “nothing to lose” at this point, I’d say the future is a thing to consider. Personally I hope their sites make it back quickly, but that a lesson about responsibility is also learned. Their tactic of point counter-point arguments make them look worse than they really are.

They have cleaned up their sites and most likely good people in the 3D world.

I think they became comfortable while they were topping the SERPS. They were probably noticed by Boser becasue of their number of comments in that forum.

When your livlihood is on the line, better to watch what COULD affect their site, not just look for the STATED google guidelines and pray for a loophole or miracle.

Thanks for the comment, how ’bout you leave a name next time?

The point about nothing to lose has been foolishly overlooked.

What they don’t get is that insinuating that Boser has that much influence over Google’s spam team is also a slap at the very people they need to flip the switch back on.

They should also look at a calender. Matt was on vacation when they got hit, and with his tenure, he isn’t likely the guy who goes thru the spam reports and decides who gets what.

Bingo bob - 2 beers now.

James says “The old saying of you get what you give will likely come back to haunt Greg Boser!”

Believe me, there are probably more spam reports out there against him or his sites than you could imagine and Google most likely doesn’t want to look like they FAVOR him.

I can’t find where he says anything like:

“what Greg Boser has done is said he is going to hurt anyone who gets in the way of his clients”

- just that he mentioned some examples from rew sites employing similar tactics as AA.

Reminder - that doesn’t make him RESPONSIBLE though - a word some realtors would like to see redefined.

Knox writes: “Thanks for the comment, how ’bout you leave a name next time?”

There’s no way. I am a honest responsible individual and promise not to take advantage of your blog space. You can see what happened to Greg Boser when he made one post regarding his seo practices. Heck, if my identity were known, it might be found out I spanked my kids 30 years ago. From that these folks would conclude I am a serial pedophile, mass murderer, or some other similarly ridiculous conclusion.

chatham NJ Real Estate writes: “The fact that the comments have not been taken down likely have to do with wanting to promote a free flow of thoughts.”

Free flow of thoughts? Go to this thread: http://www.realestatewebmasters.com/thread16532.html then go to post #45. Is this the free flow of thoughts you are referring too? What a terrible thing to say about someone in the public arena. Then this ludicrous incitive comment is followed by ‘attaboys’ by moderators and penalized REW site owners.

In the real world, these kinds of comments have to be backed up with facts, not suppositions. If the penalized sites had any decency within them, the penalized site owners would publicly apologize for a incredibly flawed public relations strategy.

Lastly, if this is the kind of character that emanates from their handling an obviously difficult situation (one they brought upon themselves, I might add), you wonder what kind of spam methods they will consider doing next when the sites are no longer penalized.

Unfortunately, this coup only forces Matt Cutts to keep these folks penalized, or risk the public persona that Google can be manipulated (isn’t this why they are penalized, ‘Google manipulation!) through public opinion.

oh- EXCELLENT COMMENT by the way!

“I can certainly say I would not want you Character Assassination standing in judgment over anything of my doing, as I think you are like the hanging judges of the old west, every defendant is guilty, and they all hang.”

pot > kettle > black

“Greb”

Spelling.

“Was he throwing some people under the bus? IT DOESN’T MATTER.”

It doesn’t?

“You didn’t intend to hurt anyone.”

Have you read his mind?

“The real estate sites that are now under a penalty are NOT the result of you ratting anyone out, but the result of site owners trying to slide by on what worked for a while.”

Siteowners have to learn that link exchange is not only an attempt to trick Google, but also a waste of time. There are many more effective ways to get your sites ranked. On the other hand, why should it be a problem if someone wants to waste time with HIS site?
The issue here is that Google has to find better ways to discount paid links.
That is Google’s challenge. What purpose is served when some websites get banned while others still enjoy the benefit?

“Now, REW run by Morgan Carey is a GREAT place to learn about SEO and real estate websites. This incident MAY have given them a black eye ”

Quite the opposite. The forum is a great place to learn and exchange ideas. The forum enables people to discuss ALL aspects of SEO and we all know that these days a lot of how well you do in the search engines has to do with how close you are to Matt.

Mike

I see the point counter-point sentence and arguments have spilled over to here.

James - you know what? Writing under a speudoname is perfectly fine in blogs, at least according to US law (right now). He explained why he did that (and is a very valid reason) and your attempt to discredit them is that? C’mon - just say their wrong in your opinion.

See- the “black helicopters” in my title fits, and I know i have a problem spelling Greg the right way - I can’t whistle well either.

What I said about the REW forum is my opinion and CAN’T be wrong - so please stop qouting me if I say “I like vanilla” and demand some kind of proof.

I am not ripping on them (Character Assassination & Bob) for hiding their identities so much as the fact that they says whatever and come off all high and mighty. I have noticed that when people hid their identity they have a whole different story to tell then when their identity is known.

So a few websites get taken down by google, and have not recovered from the penalty they were given, OK they probably deserved it, true, but so do thousands upon thousands of other websites, Real Estate and otherwise. I look at a 3 county area that people in my office and I cover and I could name 15 websites in 5 minutes which are full of reciprocal linking, realtor to realtor. They are dominating their respective searches. Where is Matt and the Spam team when it comes to devaluing those links as they should be according to the penalty Marc and Ryan got.

I guess everyting comes do to, very few people like a Nark, and that is what Greg Boser is, In his own words even. He succeeds on other peoples misery. Boy I bet lots of people aspire to that, not.

My post #45 is the truth. Everyone reading here knows it. The only ones pityful are Greg and you, who is eiher Greg, a close friend of his or somebody hired by him.

Character Assassination, I know exactly what no follows are. From here on in as it relates to you and your ID I will not be responding to you or any of your comments, unless you reveal your ID. This Father Flanagan want to be attitude is exhausting to deal with.

Wow! You talk about a conversation that has broken down!

Since it’s my data - I think I should at least weigh in…

My website was penalized. I looked for answers. From the information that I obtained this is the conclusion I have come to.

First off, it’s my fault. I placed the links on my website. I removed the links, contacted the other site owners and corrected the issue.

Then I wanted to know why I was hit while others weren’t.

Got it?

Good.

Was it Greg’s Fault. No, it was my fault.

Is it possible that Greg pointed out some sites and mine was one of them? From what he said, yes it is possible.

Any question?

I don’t think that this conversation should have degraded this way as it serves of no help to anyone.

For those still reading this, I hope that you take away the idea that you should not attempt to gain rankings in Google by artificially increasing your incoming links.

Anyone who would like to talk with me privately can email me at ryan@ryanwardrealestate.com or call me at 404.630.3187.

I learned my lesson. I just hope Google let’s me and the others who have learned their lesson back in to the unpenalized positions (wherever those positions are).

I’m coming into this conversation very late. I don’t usually post on a thread this old but since I was one of the REW sites penalized I felt compelled to comment.

Boser has been to my site one time that I am sure of and that was about 2 weeks before we were penalized. Yes, he was doing his job, so I won’t comment beyond stating that he was there.

I think the real problem here lies with the way Google handed down these “hand picked” penalties. The keyword phrase I was trying for at the time was Florence Oregon Real Estate. One of the top 3 sites is AA that still has 50 state spam pages. It would be much easier to swallow these penalties if they were handed down equally.

Someone commented that those penalized knew we were doing linking against Google guidelines. I can tell you that I did not. I am a Real Estate Broker, not an SEO expert. I had seen real estate websites doing this for years, including when I was with AA.

As for the anonymous posts I think to make nasty comments and hide your identity is pretty low, regardless of the law. But as Bob from SD stated, it’s not too hard to figure out.

Thanks Knox,

I was lucky enough to be re-included on June 2nd, which was less than 30 days. Only Jake Marsh, there in your neck of the woods was re-included before me and I felt fortunate. Guys like Ryan and Marc endured 60+ days which is why they felt compelled to be much more vocal. After all there are still top ranked AA sites with 50 spam filled state pages.

I think you are right that Jake had already removed his state pages. So had I and Ryan. I’m not sure about the others.

The day Boser visited my site I had state pages and I removed them a day or two later. Still got penalized nearly 2 weeks later.

Anyway, this is all history now. I just think Google should figure out a way to make these penalties part of their algos rather than hand pick a few. Oh well, how many things in life are really fair? It just sucks that we still need to be so careful with our linking when some are out there continueing with their 50 state recip programs.

Hi Knox and Bob,

I see bob is back, I am guessing that this is the same Bob from June and July.

I love this site, I visit it no less than twice a week and again I discover a great article which for some bizzar reason escaped me last week.

Not to add insult to injury but this issue mentioned all over the web regarding REW was no secret. This was foretold nearly a year ago and even I wrote about the importance of just doing articles on those you link out to as a safer way to link exchange. I’m not an SEO either.

kudos on the site again;

Jared Ritchey

Hi Larry Hotz,

INHO? REALLY?

You came to this site searching for “PropertyTown Denver” - and you are making a comment about REW - while you are a PropertyTown user. I removed your link for you are obviously trying to build links while you blast another firm - you have your marching orders, I know, but your “dog in the fight” is quite apparent.

Another comment here and it goes to Akismet and I rank for your name.

Knox